7 July 2008

How Pakistani Moslems remember our 7/7

If this does not wake some people up out of their false indoctrinated liberal bubble of ‘Islam means peace’ then nothing will.

As we remember those innocent people who died and were injured on the morning of 7/7 in 2005 when 4 British born Moslems committed the most cowardly act of warfare by blowing themselves up to kill innocent unsuspecting British citizens, one of the despicable Moslem cowards families back home in Pakistan is celebrating his life and achievement, in the name, and for the cause, of Islam, by having a party around his grave.

This British Moslem is revered in his ancestral home as a Martyr, one of the first upon British shores, as he and his fellow mental patients on the loose declared War for Al Qaeda against the people of Britain in their global Jihad that will always be remembered throughout history.

Luton where I live played a central starring role!

And we allow this family to travel freely between Pakistan and Great Britain on a regular basis to visit the family of the revered martyr Shehzad Tanweer. We do not call them martyr’s, we call them mentally ill deranged suicide cases who should be locked up in padded cells and pumped with liquid cosh for the safety and security of the British public.

That is what we do to non-Moslem suicide cases after all, but Moslems are a protected species within British society where the rules that apply to us do not apply to them, the two rule Britain that now operates within our land.

2 Kingdoms living on the one tiny Island and only one will survive into the future.

The British home secretary calls these murderous cowardly acts anti-Islamic activity, and his Moslem family living in the Islamic Nation of Pakistan calls it martyrdom in the path of Jihad for Allah.

Who is right and who is wrong in their terminology?

We are also told that it is a small minority of Moslems who carry out such acts, or hold these beliefs. 400 guests parting around a grave in a village in Pakistan celebrating the murder of 52 innocent British citizens and the wounding of over 700 is not a small minority if you ask me, it just shows the belief in the ‘hearts and minds’ of the majority of Moslems living in Britain behind closed doors.

More writing on the wall.

To add more insult to injury for the British families who have been left behind to pick up the pieces from this tragedy, is the fact that one of the brothers of the mental patients on the loose that day has now been awarded with a gap year to his ancestral home of Pakistan, the exact same place his brother traveled too to record his last will and testament on video for us and his Moslem brothers in Britain and around the World.

Pakistani’s who are born upon our shores leave Britain and travel freely to Pakistan every year and end up in the Madras’s there where they become indoctrinated with ‘hate and murder’ towards us and our way of life because those Islamic leaders in Pakistan know that we are now in a global Holy War and that those British born Moslems have their part to play in it, just like those on the morning of 7/7.

They then return home to the civilized green shores of England from the harsh Islamic landscape of Pakistan and get to work transforming our society from within, into an Islamic State as Islam commands direct from the pages of the Koran as they follow the example that their false child molesting paedophile prophet set for them.

If 400 guests partying around a grave for one of the mental patients is anything to go on as they hold him in reverence, then you can imagine the brother of one of these mental cases being treated like a King in Pakistan, and it was those who we have living amongst who us put this in place.

Do they have no shame or conscious towards the British people?

One of those in charge of the project that has sent the brother of one of the 7/7 mental patients to Pakistan is a host on the Dragons den which is a very popular TV show in Britain. I can’t see it being very popular any more now they have this twisted member of their panel sitting alongside of them. I have always had the utmost respect for those on that show because they are good at what they do and very sharp that’s why they are successful, so I wonder why they allowed this Islamic tool to sit amongst them.

Whenever any one watches it now all they will see is this man and the disrespect he has shown the British people, I should imagine that those feelings will be enough to switch the TV over just so they don’t have to watch his slimy Moslem face on their TV screens, which is a shame because the other members make the show an enjoyable programme.

Evil company corrupts good habits, but anything goes in today’s “I have to do anything I can to be seen as multi-cultural and give Islam and Moslems a platform” in this warped politically correct environment we now live.

The Islamic Religion at the core of what it is, in its heart and soul, hates us and our ways because we, and are ways, are not Islamic, this is the basic fundamental belief system of every Moslem who knows their religion because it is what the religion teaches them. To them our supposedly man made laws are an abomination to their god because their god should be in control and not the other way around, so it is every Moslems duty to take the rule from out of the hands of non-Moslems and place it into the hands of Moslems so that they can dispense their Islamic way of life upon mankind which is Sharia law.

This Dragons den presenter and the Moslem families of the 7/7 mental patients are just doing what all Moslems now do and that is sticking the big two fingers up at the British people and then justifying their actions.

There is no justification for the unjustifiable.

Daily Mail: The Pakistani way of celebrating 7/7

Daily Mail: 7/7 relative treated to a free year in Pakistan


Update 23/10/2010:
Dragons Den offers to buy a baby in Pakistan

51 comments:

Anonymous said...

The Christian's "struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against... the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms" - Ephesians 6:12. How then can we deal with Islam without harming Muslims?

Follow Christ and His commands, that's how. The early church did this, its members joyfully returning the favour by which Christ died for them. And after a few centuries the might of the Roman Empire knelt before it. In contrast the Christians of the Middle Ages took up the sword, against Christ's own words (John 18:36), and we now see that they merely perpetuated an intercontinental blood feud which is building up again today.

Christians, follow the way of Christ!

Gospeller

Freedom said...

The Crusades in the Middle Ages, as horrible as they were, were no more than a reaction to what the Muslims were already doing to Christians in their midst.

If there had been no Crusades, Gospeller and his ilk would today be praying in Mosques and speaking Arabic (and I'm none too sure such is not the case!)

Gospeller, study some real history rather than revisionist fantasy

Anonymous said...

Dear Freedom

This is Gospeller. I am an evangelical Christian and I happen to be white and English. Jesus Christ the son of the one creator God and is my personal Lord and saviour, who came in the flesh. Although Allah claims to be the creator God, only naive Chistians take him to be Jehovah, because the qur'an denies the divinity of Jesus; 1 John 4:3 settles the matter.

So much for my credentials. I respect your freedom to disagree with me about whether certain historical events are good or bad things. But let me ask you a question: When Jesus Christ looked down from heaven, saw the Crusaders enter Jerusalem, and then massacre all the Muslims and Jews they could find, women and children included, do you think He was glad?

Gospeller

crusader1119 said...

Gospellor:

I dont think HE was glad.

I also dont agree with the massacre of anyone.For any reason.

I do believe we have,sometimes, to fight fire with fire.

So what is it to be?

An eye for an eye or turn the other cheek?

crusader1119

crusader1119 said...

btw....

good piece LH...

Anonymous said...

Dear Crusader1119

Jesus Christ himself answered that one for you: read the sermon on the Mount (specifically Matthew 5:38-48). If you claim to be a Christian, do what your Lord says!

Gospeller

crusader1119 said...

Sorry Gospeller,

That is not the answer.

The more we love and tollerate our neighbour the more they take over and change our way of life to meet their own ends, which ironically is also our end .

Anonymous said...

Dear Crusader1119,

I don't know what your beliefs are and I do not condemn you if they differ from mine; all I am saying is that you have no right to call yourself Christian if you refuse Christ's command.

We may both be willing to die for our beliefs, but I will do it the way Christ did, praying for those who put him to death, and not like the way Peter wanted when he drew his sword thinking to fight for Christ on the night before the crucifixion.

Gospeller

Findalis said...

Until you either get rid of or suppress the followers of the Great Pedophile, the UK will only get more 7/7s and they will be worse.

Anonymous said...

Gospeller

To turn the other cheek in this situation would mean not to do anything. Can that be justified?

To use an example out of the present context? Could love be extended to a neighbour in 30's Germany who was part of a movement that would perpetrate the greatest evil of the 20th century?

Anonymous said...

Dear Anonymous of July 7th, 22:25:

To turn the other cheek in this situation does not mean to deny or to wimp out. It means to put yourself at risk to challenge evil heedless of personal cost and without perpetrating violence.

I know of a believer who approached a man with a loaded gun and simply said "What are you so frightened of?" He was prepared to get shot but as it turned out the man collapsed in tears. Had he been shot he would have been with Christ, so it's a win/win situation for the Christian - but it takes faith.

Don't dehumanise Muslims inside your own head. They are human beings made in the image of God, and plenty of them have come to Christ.

Gospeller

RG said...

Gospeller,

There is a time for drawing the sword. Christ stopped Peter from preventing what had to be done, the crucifixion.

However, when there are those out there who will kill your children for the sake of their dark theology, you draw the sword to protect your child (or children). The turning of the other cheek is for teaching a person to become less prone to violent confrontation, however, one is no less and assocaite of a murderer if he stands back and does nothing while a murderer is slaughtering innocents. Justice and Life is the ultimate will of God.

*************************

In other news, the Church Of England continues to disolve into desolation.

Anonymous said...

Dear rg

I am not a pacifist. For example, I will intervene if I see a mugger bashing an elderly lady, nobody gets into my house against my will without a fight, and I would not have been a conscientious objector in World War 2. All of those I believe I can justify from scripture. But I will not join in a cycle of vigilante raids against a community seeking to overthrow my own - instead I will ask God why (ie, for what sin) he is theatening my community with judgement. Then I will preach to my own community to put their house in order, and if we do and if the cause against the hostile community is a just one then I shall join the armed forces. To fight without putting your own house in order is to stand in the way of God's judgement, which is not a wise place to be. Jesus knew that the Roman occupation of the Holy Land was for sins of his people, because long ago his Father had told them that they would be subject to gentiles if they were too disobedient to the Laws of Moses. That is why he did not start or join an anti-Roman guerrilla movement like the Zealots, but called Simon the Zealot to join his own movement, the church.

Today I believe that the promiscuity which has totally wrecked family stability since the 1960s is what God will not tolerate. Anyone under 40 has no idea of how different British society was before that. Our stats for extramarital births, children living with one parent, divorce, abortion are historically unprecedented. So is the simultaneous rise of Islam. Coincidence or divine judgment? We like to think our way of life is better than that of Muslims, but that is not God's view for he is handing us over to them. Certainly our way of life has more freedom, but when freedom is grossly abused God punishes and takes it away.

What can we do? First, clean up your own personal life if it does not match the sexual morality called for by God. At the political level, suppose that disenchanted MPs from our present parties set up a new party, together with leaders of immigrant communities who originally came here for our social stability. Ideally they would be symbiotic with a groundswell movement. Suppose that this party had a foreign policy of leaving the EU, and domestic policies determined explicitly by what is good for family life together with realism about Islamic intent. I believe they could win an election. The country could then begin, painfully, to be turned round.

Gospeller

Anonymous said...

Shall we all line up to be first to be blown apart by nails and bolts from a terrorist bomb?
Should the Israeli policeman who shot dead the terrorist who killed several people the other day, by driving a bulldozer over cars in a street, have sat by and said "Please Lord intervene to prevent more death.?"
Of course not.
Will God judge a man badly if he kills a man who gets into his house and is carrying a knife with intent?
I personally do not think so, but not being God, the answer will not come to me in this life..
If we are all made in the image of God, and we are God's most intelligent species on Earth, could it be that God acts through the deeds of Man and also, so does the Devil?
Otherwise how can the Divine intervene on the Earth?
In that case, the man, or woman that kills a terrorist about to commit a mass-murder, must be doing God's will in preventing greater evil.
The terrorist must be doing the Devil's will and as such, the person that defeats him is in fact innocent in God's eyes and will be rewarded for his brave act, even though he killed?

Think about it, the Islamic population believe they are the chosen people who do God's will therefore if they kill in Allah's name, then they will be rewarded in Paradise.
How can the rest of the World survive then, if the response can only be one of submission, no matter what evil is done.
I do not question your personal beliefs, but as we are creatures of Free Will, then we must choose, sometimes, whether to live or die.
That is what separates the ordinary man from the Hero.
For the non-Muslims to survive the future, we must surely believe in our worthiness to be what we are, to be able to have the will to fight and survive.
You say the that Jesus did not start a war against Rome.
Well that would have been futile, because the Roman Empire was too powerful.
Remember that just a few decades after Jesus, Rome completely razed Jerusalem to the ground.
Just before that Rome extended it's Empire to Britain under Claudius and brought a severe blow to the ancient British way of life by killing off all the Druids, who were the upholders of British history and the conduits of ancient knowledge in Astronomy, Medicine, and social order.
Just as Rome tried to erase British history,(and did a pretty good job at it,) so too would Islam seek to erase Western History.
If you do not think so, study how the Taliban destroyed all the images of ancient Buddhism in Afghanistan, which pre-dated Islam, and showed it up as a relatively modern construct of a hotch-potch religion, comprised of elements of Judaism and Christianity.
Jesus would have known that, and would not have been foolish enough to believe in a war against Rome.
Do not forget either, that Rome became Christian under Constantine, on the eve of a battle, and saw signs that convinced him to adopt Christ's banner.
Do not forget either, that Emporer Constantine was descendent of a British Royal lineage and becoming Christian did not diminish the war-like powers of Rome.
Yes, the first Roman Christian Emperor was British!

Anonymous said...

Dear Anon of July 8th, 10:35

You wrote: "we must choose, sometimes, whether to live or die.
That is what separates the ordinary man from the Hero."

Yes, but which is which? Jesus chose to die...

You also wrote: "You say that Jesus did not start a war against Rome. Well that would have been futile, because the Roman Empire was too powerful."

Are you kidding? Jesus was God and he could have blown Rome away singlehandedly. He will destroy an entire world army when he gets back (Rev 19, Zech 14), but his first visit was to teach us a different way.

And, in that different way, he did start a war with Rome. The movement he founded did violence to nobody and was persecuted by the Roman Empire with all of the terrifying might to which you refer - yet within three centuries Rome bent the knee to Christ.

Constantine's father was of Balkan origin and his mother was Greek. He was born in the Balkans, although he was campaigning for the Romans in England with his father, a very senior figure in the Empire, when his father died. Their troops promptly acclaimed him emperor (near York), and he (and they) went on to defeat all rivals to the title. What is the evidence that he was British, please?

Gospeller

miles said...

Imagne if Jeus had had real supporters and believers...would they have allowed him to be persecuted and crucified? Jesus even makes that asserted statement somewhere in one of the Gospels.

Jesus siad, 'would that you kindle the fire' he would be there to light it up....he didn't come to unify people least of all the evil ones with the good.

RG said...

"Imagne if Jeus had had real supporters and believers...would they have allowed him to be persecuted and crucified?" Don't forget to add, And had to power to bring Himself back to life in three days and walk among his supporters and believers for the next 30 days as a demonstration of his power over death, persecution and crucifixion. The Ultimate Victory over death and evil."

The persecution and crucifixion also served as an event that was to let evil, both evil men and Satan, do all they could to Him, and then to let the world see how futile evil is in the face of His power.

Anonymous said...

Gospeller @ 07-Jul-2008 23:06:00

Everybody who is concerned about Islamic extremism is sick of how the elite is 'turning the other cheek' by trying to sweep it under the carpet by airbrushing it out of the public domain.

This present climate of political correctness is worse than the McCarthy witch-hunts in 50's America. They were state sponsored and regulated. Today's PC witch-hunts are being done by a self elected kangaroo courts who claim what is moral and what is not. Lionheart is a victim of this witch-hunt with his good character and reputation ruined by accusations that have yet to be decided in court whenever or if it ever happens.

The elite is trying to airbrush this extremism out of the public eye and try to present a positive image of Islam yet almost every day news of the opposite appears like this one where two under-age girls were sexually attacked by a head of a mosque who is also a prominent member of the moslem community.

http://news.scotsman.com/scotland/Mother-claims-girl-15-changed.4264195.jp

There is nothing being done about this yet if the perpetrator was a Christian it would be all over the media to exploit the myth that Christianity is at the heart of all the problems in todays society.

People are sick and tired of the double standards. People are not dehumanising moslems in their minds but keeping the facts in the public domain despite the efforts of the elite.

I agree with your comment that we can't fight fire with fire and that we must go the extra mile with moslem's but we have to confront those who do not want to listen.

You said previously that you are prepared to die for your faith praying for your perpetrators but moslems are also prepared to die for their path not praying for the perpetrators of their death but to kill innocent woman and children.

In this day of mechanised killing where hundreds can be killed in a individual action (ten of thousands if ever an attack using a bomb using radioactive materials were used) can it be justified to try and prevent it?

Can it also be justified to try and do something to prevent the demise of our culture as detailed in the below article?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1033189/This-country-pro-Muslim-giving-succour-extremists-destroy-us.html

People are afraid that their way of life is being eroded by this elite of today who actions will inevitability replace it with an Islamic one. This isn't scaremongering but the logical conclusion of a society purging itself an established faith. Liberalism as a faith is unable to stand against a strong faith like Islam.

Anonymous said...

Dear Anon of July 8th, 20:08

I agree with everything you say - especially that people are sick of double standards in the treatment of Christianity and Islam, and above all in your last-sentence punchline.

If you were to get more specific about what you might do then it is possible I would disagree, but not so far... Please ask yourself WHY Islam is rising in Britain at this time, for the answer to that question will determine your response. My own answer and suggestion is given in my comment of July 8th, 09:00 on this thread, but I welcome the chance to interact with other views.

You don't yet have to risk solo action if you get wind of a specific terrorist plot. The brave wing of our police force (rather than the thought police) will still take your info very seriously.

Gospeller

Lionheart said...

I dont know about that Gospeller, i gave them very credible information and they told me to ring crimestoppers.

I told them "no wonder this countries as destroyed as it is when it has you protecting it"

FACTUAL

God bless

Anonymous said...

Dear Lionheart

I believe you and what you say is depressing.

Gospeller

Lionheart said...

who will protect my human rights, who will protect the human rights of the men women and children of the British isles because the British State certainly will not.

What choice do we have?

Turn the other cheeck and let them take over?

Or pick up the sword and die by the sword as Jesus said we would.

That is the consequence after all.

Who says it is wrong and who says it is right?

What would have happened if we turned the other cheek to hitler?

Anonymous said...

Gospeller @ 08-Jul-2008 20:48:00

Apologies if I am not being clear. My posts are not talking about physical actions but acts like LH to inform people of the dangers that I feel Islam poses to the country I live in.

There is accusations by the PC lobby that by informing people of the dangers of Islamic extremists that I am islamaphobic and will cause attacks on ordinary moslems.

I am not a devout Christian but recently I have been doing some praying and read a little bible and that despite how people claim we live in a secular country, the values I possess that I hold dear are Christian.

I have read Matthew 5:38-48 and tried to put it in context of this situation. If it talk about about moslem extremism then I could harm moslem yet if I don't then it could result in more people being harmed and an escalation of tensions that means more and more people being harmed.

Can I love my neighbour if it means other people being harmed?

IIRC, you said believe in the literal word of the bible. Can a literal interpreation applied to the situation I described?

Anonymous said...

Dear Lionheart

The whole idea of Human Rights is rather odd. Rights can only be granted by someone above you, but strangely it is secular people - who don't believe in anyone above them - who are big on the idea. The only human right I can find that God gives gentiles in the Bible is the right not to be flooded out globally again. God's covenant with Israel is not phrased in the language of human rights; it comprises a contract and a relationship. Believers in Christ are graciously granted the right to be with him eternally after they die, but I don't find anything granted them in this life. In fact they are promised suffering for their faith (2 Tim 3:12).

Regarding your possibly rhetorical questions, how to respond to the Islamic challenge depends on why you think it is on the rise. There IS an answer to that, for God is in charge of all things. My own answer and proposal for action is given in my comment of July 8th, 09:00 on this thread, but I welcome the opportunity to interact with other views.

I would not have been a Conscientious Objector in World War 2. I can find no blanket Yes or No in the Bible to when to fight physically and when not to. Each cause must be considered by the biblically informed believer on its own merits. Hitler had to go.

Every blessing

Gospeller

PS The info you went to the police with - is the story on your blog (minus names)?

Muslims Against Sharia said...

Tomahawk cruise missile: a perfect present for Shehzad Tanweer martyrdom party. But as much as this "party" is spitting in the faces of 7/7 victims and their families, British government is partly responsible. The Brits had no business giving the body to the family. It should have been ground up and used as dog food.

http://muslimsagainstsharia.blogspot.com/2008/07/relatives-of-july-7-bomber-hold-party.html

Anonymous said...

Dear Anon of July 8th, 21:40:

The PC lobby are hypocrites, and I wholeheartedly support all who publicise the facts about the rise of Islam in Britain and Europe. I worry only about the tone of some of the people who contribute to this blog, along the lines of "Lord, please let me off the leash so that I can massacre these people." I don't think that is what Jesus would have thought.

I'm glad you are looking for God because he is looking for you!

The golden rule in reading scripture is that a passage means what the people for whom it was written (between about 1900 and 3800 years ago) would have taken it to mean. The meaning of most passages is so obvious that this principle is not needed, but when things get tricky then that is how to proceed. The Old Testament sets the context for the New and it helps a lot to have a Bible with cross-references. My favourite Bible teacher is David Pawson, whose book "Unlocking the Bible" is a set of essays, 20-30 pages each, about each of the books of the Bible. It was a big help to me.

Every Blessing

Gospeller

Anonymous said...

Gospeller

I'd like to comment on your post 08-Jul-2008 09:00:00. I have also come to the conclusion that we need to get our house in order first.

Of course, the permissive society in particular sexual freedom is the root of today's problem especially the resultant social and economic costs that is not sustainable nor desierable but I don't think that promiscuity is the ONLY cause of the problems in our society. IMHO as time goes on standards in our society falls and our expectations of what society should be falls as well. We see things becoming worse and we only expect things to get worse still.

I don't know where this comes from but I think it comes from our over reliance on the state to fix all our problems and that our society spreads the fantasy of the better life of material comforts which raises expectations that for the majority of people can't be realistically obtained.We are obsessed with the acquisition of wealth. We obsess about what we expect to get, not what we can give back.

I remember a quote of another forum about South Africa where the person said that business is the only thing that is holding the country together and I feel in this liberal secular society it is the same. In a sense there is nothing to hold us together, the constant assault on Christianity means the very mention of it invokes mockery and any hint of national patriotism is crushed by the constant guilt trips of the left of our nations imerial past and the actions of mindless thugs wrapped in our flags.

We need an identity that can hold us together, have faith in and be proud of.

I appreciate your optimism of the alternative but you have to be realistic. It will take years before a new party serious of election on a national level to get up and running.

Until then, what do we do until then? Do we sit back and hope everything gets better?

I remember another quote from a different forum that said something like 'if conservatives don't do anything then there won't be anything to conserve'.Society is changing and as I said it will become more secularised only for it to embrace religion again. What religion will it embrace, Christianity or Islam?

If we sit about hoping for the best then it could be Islam.

Anonymous said...

As per my comment @ 08-Jul-2008 22:49:00, I won't be available until next evening so I wanted to write this post now. It's late, I'm tired and I think it doesn't really articulate what I really mean.

As a society we need to move from the celebration of reckless individualism to one where people take responsibility rather than leaving it to the state.

What I was trying to say is that our aspirations in society has went to the acquisition of wealth even if it means we are strangers to other people in our society even neighbours. We no longer care that much about what happens to other people or anything about us, as long as we can insulate ourselves from it with food, SKY TV and alcohol.

As to your comment @ 08-Jul-2008 22:47:00, yes some of the posters do get a bit excitable but the posters are patriots as well Christians. They don't like what's happening to their country and want to do something about it but feel powerless by the constraints put on by our poltitcally correct elite.

Anonymous said...

Dear Anon of July 8th, 22:49

This is Gospeller. I agree that there is so much wrong with our sick secular humanist society today. (To call this a Christian country is a bad joke!) I zeroed in on promiscuity because (1) there are plenty of societies with more longstanding drunkenness, violence and thieving than ours which God has not terminated, as our society looks set to be terminated; and (2) a secular anthropological study found that every society that went from chastity to rampant promiscuity and wrecked its family structure and stability, collapsed within 2-3 generations (J.D. Unwin, Sex and Culture, 1934). I take this to be God at work even among nations that never knew him, such as the Canaanites (Leviticus 18:24).

I agree also that secular humanism is a spiritual vacuum. People threw out Our Father and then wanted Nanny State to turn to, but Nanny is mutating rapidly into Big Brother. As a Christian I cannot do more than preach the gospel and let people decide for themselves.

Blessings

Gospeller

PS After tomorrow I'll be away from this blog for a week (at Lords, in fact).

Anonymous said...

PS In response to my concern that some contributors to this blog had a tone of 'Lord, please let me off the leash so that I can massacre these people,' you said that:

"some of the posters do get a bit excitable but the posters are patriots as well Christians. They don't like what's happening to their country and want to do something about it but feel powerless by the constraints put on by our politically correct elite."

That describes me too! I am not unpatriotic. The issue is what to do in the situation we find ourselves in. I would ask Christians whose private thoughts are of the sort I have described to consider whether their deepest loyalty is to God or country. We were made by God and redeemed by his own son at cost of his life.

This island belongs to God, not to the Anglo-Saxons and Celts, who live on it by God's grace. Long ago, each of these peoples won it by conquest...

Gospeller

Lionheart said...

Answer this one Gospeller.

Do we hand our country over to the new hitler or do we defend it like Sir Winston?

And dont palm this one off to God it is a personal question for you to answer for the sake of your family and their futures upon the British isles.

Lionheart

Lionheart said...

I do remember the Archbishop of York once saying that there are times that War is justified.

Anonymous said...

Dear Lionheart

I agree with the Archbishop of York that there are times when war is justified, and I've said on this blog that I would not have been a conscientious objector in World War 2. So: what about today?

You ask me: "Do we hand our country over to the new hitler or do we defend it like Sir Winston?And dont palm this one off to God it is a personal question for you to answer"

I have no authority to say what "we" should do; as you say, it is a personal question. What I am saying is that there is no *point* in fighting Islam without cleaning up our own act, for I believe that Islam is God's judgement for certain sins of secular humanism. Standing in the way of God's judgement is a good way to get flattened.

In Jerusalem 2600 years ago many people were saying that they should fight the encroaching Babylonians and their awful religion. But Jeremiah explained to them that there was no point, for the Babylonians were God's judgement. I do not think that we have yet reached the no-point stage, but the idea of an invader as divine judgement is the same.

*IF* we clean up our own act so that we regain favour with God as a nation then I am under no illusion what it would take to deal with ravenous Islam, and I would be right behind a new Churchill or King Arthur or whoever.

Gospeller

Lionheart said...

We all have our own standing before God.

Allow me to stand before my God and let Him flatten me if He so wishes.

You chose your own path, because Islam and Moslems are going to flatten you and your family if not stopped.

Lionheart said...

Godpeller, you are a liberal at heart.

If we took your approach then we would have said Hitler was because of our sins let God deal with it and then he would have taken over the World.

Thankfull God raised up people to defend the World and defeat Nazism.

You can sit inside and peek through your curtains when people are defending their lives, that is your choice.

Geting your house ready for your Moslem guest to take over it.

But just remember they are coming for you next and you WILL be meeting your God, the same as me.

Make sure you know His will for your life now and dont miss it.

Walk out your calling with fear and trembling, as i am walking out mine!

Anonymous said...

Dear Lionheart

You wrote: "Allow me to stand before my God and let Him flatten me if He so wishes." I am not stopping you! But I think there is a better way...

You have said my approach would have let Hitler walk all over us, when I have posted repeatedly that I would have joined up to fight Hitler. We were a righteous nation in those days. When in 1940 we fought to keep our front door shut at Dover, our back door was also closed to sin.

Churchill told us on taking over from Chamberlain that he could offer us nothing but blood, toil, tears and sweat. I am under no illusion that the same effort would be needed to see off Islam. All that blood, toil, tears and sweat would be tragically wasted, though, if we are still committing the same sins for which God raised Islam against us.

The real point between us is whether Islam is God's judgement. I think it is (why is that "liberal"?) I don't know what you believe about it. If you think it is, surely you agree that it is pointless suicide to stand in the way of divine judgement? If you think it isn't, why then is God raising Islam against us?

Gospeller

Lionheart said...

Gospeller,

You come with a holyier than though attitude, as if your right and everyone else is wrong, and you will do right to allow me to stand before my God and not get in the way.

God has His remnant to do His bidding amongst Egypt that has arisen in our midst.

You say "I think there is a better way"

There is NO other way, wake up boy!

You say you would have fought thenbut not now, so what do we do, roll over and accept our take over?

The Church has its role and responsibility within our society so preach to them, i am fullfiling mine, what about you, what are you doing to get your house in order and change soeicty?

The real point isnt about Gods judgement, the point is that the facts are the facts and you choose to ignore them becaus you have not got the stomach for what is needed.

It is easy to say you have when in reality you havent.

God knows whether i am right or wrong in that statement.

Yes soeicty is destroyed, as the bible said it would be in the end times, that does not change other things though, and it shouldnt stop us from doing what is right and palming it all of to God saying He will take care of it.

He uses man for His purposes if you hadnt noticed.

Anonymous said...

Dear Lionheart

Some of the sins for which I believe God is sending Islam as judgement, I have committed. Although I know that I am forgiven, that is not a pleasant thought. I am holier than nobody.

You write: "the facts are the facts and you choose to ignore them because you have not got the stomach for what is needed... God knows whether i am right or wrong in that statement."

God knows what is in my heart, but do you? We have never met. To the best of my knowledge I am willing to die for my beliefs.

You ducked my question. I believe that Islam is God's judgement, but I don't know what you believe. If you think it is, surely you agree that it is pointless suicide to stand in the way of divine judgement? If you think it isn't, why then is God permitting Islam to threaten us?

Gospeller

Lionheart said...

Listen Godspeller, you look for every opportunity to criticise people and pass judgement upon them as if you are ministering Gods justice for Him.

Take a character check.

You should take a step back because at the moment you are acting as if you are God Himself.

I dont know what is in your heart that is true, God does, but from your words it is easy to tell, but you believe you are right on everything and everyone else is wrong.

It is easy to say "I will die for my beliefs", it is a totally different ball game to place yourself in the position too die for them.

When you do then i will listen to your words about dying for your faith, and until then they are mere words.

Every Christian knows that is what God commands of us so it is easy to play lip service.

And if you really want to test that belief in dying then get on your knees and ask God to place you in the positon then we will see wont we.

I believe that Islam is the devils religion sent to destroy Gods kingdom on Earth.

Is God using it for judgement against the British people? I dont know, all i know is that it is a human force for the devil to use, and yes British society is in a bad state, but thankfully the likes of the two Bishops Yok and Rochester and trying to do something about it.

You can sit back praying and hoping for God to save you, and yes He will save your soul when they kill you.

But me, i know my calling and dont ask me to explain it to you because that is a futile question.

Anonymous said...

Dear Lionheart

If my soul is asked of me by my Lord then I hope I will not be found wanting. That is all anyone can say.

I have tried not to judge any person, and if I have then I apologise. I am free to comment critically on the *views* that people hold, and part of the point of blogs is the cut and thrust of debate. I accept that my views on the rise of Islam might be wrong but I don't see that anybody has demonstrated that. The reason that I am so keen to determine why God is permitting the rise of Islam in Britain is that the answer to that question will decide a person's response. Would you go that far with me?

Gospeller

Lionheart said...

Gospeller: "God knows what is in my heart, but do you? We have never met. To the best of my knowledge I am willing to die for my beliefs."

Placing yourself in a position to be willing to die for your beliefs is different from sitting back waiting for the Lord to take your soul.

Actions speak louder than words, and our Faith is a proactive faith.

Everyone is free to comment on here and it is good for differences of opinion, just no racist, ant-semetic, hatefilled, swearing comments because they will be deleted.

We all have different views and opinions, and we are all living different lives. What is right for one is wrong for another.

God is not permitting it, man is, man has tried removing God from our midst so what is left? The devil who is the ruler of this age.

The devil controls Islam so that is why it is arising, but God is raising up His people too.

We are all sinners living in a fallen sinful world, we each individually have to make our peace with God because we will all meet Him some day.

Those Marxist traitors who are detsroying the fabric of our society are all atheists so we know where they will be spending eternity.

Anonymous said...

Dear Lionheart

Actually I strongly agree with everything you say there, except for a single sentence, that "God is not permitting it" - meaning the rise of Islam. Even there we probably differ because of a misunderstanding. What I meant is that plenty of things happen in the world that God does not like, but nothing happens that he does not permit. He is almighty God. So if Islam is rising here then it is part of his plan, and my question is: What part? Why is he letting it rise? We have the mind of Christ, after all, and we are permitted to enquire of him.

It seems that you are not interested in that question, so, having hopefully found unity with you again, I shall stop asking it of you.

Every blessing
Gospeller

helzbellz said...

You two are way over analyzing this. It's all quite simply. Islam is rising to test our moral fortitude. Will we give in or fight for what we believe in. And if we fight for what we believe in. Then, we will unite and realize what we had was almost lost due to being to decadent and letting society slip away. So, in away it can be seen as God is giving us another chance to prove ourselves to him and us. It's really not that preplexing as you make out to be Gospeller.

Anonymous said...

What a great exchange of ideas, and a very cogent final word from hellzbellz.
It is true that as we have slipped away from control by the Church, into secular, individualistic ways, we have lost sight of the very things that bring to Man and Woman, the greatest of human rewards, which are intangible. Love of and help for your neighbour.
Reaching out to the downtrodden with help. Doing good for good's sake.
Living simply and abstaining from over indulgence.
Perhaps most importantly, the love we have for our fellows, our families and the joys that can bring in our lifetime.
For all else we must await the time when we leave this mortal life, for now we see as through a dark glass, and only then we shall see clearly the greater plan.
What we love, we must defend.
The ultimate sacrifice is our own lives, whether for Family or Country,or for God, should the challenge arise.
As we have lost sight of our old values, and hedonism and self-fulfilment have become the greater goals, it cannot be surprising that a group of people with primitive and simple beliefs behind their actions, gain in power from our lack of direction, and from the actions of those who are wishing to see the final destruction of past heritage, and it's replacement with" Socialism" or "World-government."
Our challenge when the time comes, will be what tries us on the balance and we will be judged accordingly.
If the gardener does not cut back the weeds and vines, then the flowers and fruits are replaced with their wild and uncultured alternatives.
The survival of our civilisation is at stake, but most people are not yet aware of the challenge they will be confronted with.

Jock McDoc said...

Muslims Against Sharia @ 08-Jul-2008 22:09:00

I'm not sure if you realise but this site is to raise awareness of the growth of Islamism in the UK which could in the near future include violence created by Islamists against other Islamist sects.

Muslims Against Sharia said...

Jock McDoc,

Apparently, you do not understand the difference between Islam and Islamism, between a Muslim and and Islamist. Islamist is a Muslim fundamentalist, or Muslim extremist, radical Muslim. Not every Muslim is an Islamist. Islamist violence against Islamists is a good thing. If they all kill each other, only moderate Muslim will remain.

Anonymous said...

Dear Helzbellz, and immeidately following Anon

I appreciate your comments on the exchange I have been part of.

Incidentally, whether I'm right or wrong, I'm not perplexed!

NB The church is not about control, it's a voluntary opt-in grouping or it isn't authentic Christianity - at least, the apostolic church in the New Testament was like that.

That's enough, because I'm in an internet cafe on holiday.

Gospeller

Joanne said...

freedom - the Roman Catholic Crusades did not just entail the killing of Muslims, but Christians as well - best study some real history yourself.

Joanne said...

God allowed Judah to go up against Israel when Israel was bowing down to idols and evil abounded in Israel. Judah warned Israel that God was with them and not with Israel because of her sinning. Israel lost 500,000 men in that battle, and consequently were gravely defeated by Judah. Another time, God would not allow Judah to go up against Israel. These are brothers warring against one another. It is evident through the Bible that when God's people stray from his commandments, statues, and laws, he hands them over to their enemies, whether their enemies be of God Almighty himself or idol worshippers. It seems rather simplistic that if Britain wants to rid themselves of the problem, "Islam," they must first turn to God, ask for forgiveness for their sins, and turn away from their sins. This is honestly a no-brainer. I wouldn't hold my breath - Britain will truly need an awakening like no other to turn her about to face God.

Thankfully, God will only turn his face away for a short time.

Joanne said...

The Assyrians and Babylonians - idol worshippers, conquered the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah, eventually, and took everyone prisoner. What state was Israel and Judah in at that time? They were committing grave sins; they had turned away from God and were worshipping idols. God will not stand for it. God punished his people for their wickedness. God is punishing the British now for their wickedness. When Britain was at its glorious peak, she was a Christian nation, keeping God's laws. Where is Britain now? Is she a Christian nation keeping God laws? No; she certainly is not. Do not fear; all is in God's time - have faith.

Anonymous said...

Jesus siad, 'would that you kindle the fire' he would be there to light it up....he didn't come to unify people least of all the evil ones with the good. I think the point was missed. Jesus was saying if they would have stood up and backed him he would have done the rest.like instead of fearing and shouting free berabis they should have shouted free Jesus. the father works every thing for the good so even though the people let him down the word was still forfilled.